OBJ, Atiku Feud Frightens Me
By
Tuesday, October 10, 2006
Achike Udenwa, Governor of Imo State spoke to Newswatch editorial team on his tripod vision, his presidential ambition and the on-going feud between President Olusegun Obasanjo and Vice-President Atiku Abubakar. Excerpts:
Newswatch: The last time you visited Newswatch, you talked to us about your mission and vision. Have you been able to realise this vision?
Udenwa: Well, to a large extent, I think it has been a success despite the problems. I think we have done well so far. By the time I got into office in 1999, I took sometime to study what the Imo situation was economically, politically, socially and otherwise. And we set out to map out our plans. That we did for the better part of the first tenure. By the time we came back for the second tenure, we felt that we had laid some foundation and that we should be able to now have a vision about how to carry on for the next four years. So, I started what we call the tripod vision. It is made up of agriculture, industrialisation and re-orientation. I said if we were able to make good marks in these three major areas, the state would be the better for it. And I am proud to say today that we have done some justice to these three cardinal points or programmes. We have recorded quite a lot of successes. But that does not mean that we have achieved all that we set out to achieve or to say we have arrived. We have not arrived yet. But at least we have laid a foundation and I believe that with the distance we have gone so far, we have done well. We have covered quite a good mileage. I believe that the in-coming administration, if it finds this vision good, should continue with it and the state will be the better for it.
Newswatch: Is it possible for us to know the details of the programme?
Udenwa: Yes. In agriculture, we know Imo State is not endowed with a lot of land resources. We are one of the smallest in terms of land mass. And we are densely populated. So, that dictates our agricultural programme. We find out we cannot embark on a very extensive agricultural programme. We have to be intensive in our approach. We tried to get our people into cooperative, because we have very difficult land tenure system, where people own just very little parcel. And so we cannot do large-scale agriculture. I give you an example. In one of our local governments called Ihitte-Uboma, we were able to get the rice farmers together. And we were able to supply them with a lot of inputs. We even supplied them land-clearing facilities. We also built rice mills there. And that has helped them. In fact, it has quadrupled their normal output. We believe if it is followed in future, Imo will be self-sufficient in the production of rice, for example. We have chosen some other agricultural products like oil palm. We have intensified the production of oil palm. We have also done a lot in the area of cassava farming .We have even set up cassava processing plants. The idea is to grow enough of these crops and also to process them. We have recorded quite a huge success. We have given a lot of agricultural credits to individuals, cooperative farmers, and we have established a huge farm for young graduates. We also set up a demonstration farm fashioned after the Songhai Farm in Cotonou, Benin Republic. Here, we grow all sorts of crops and equally use them as a training ground for young farmers.
Newswatch: Why is orientation part of your tripod vision?
Udenwa: In fact, as far as we are concerned, of the three cardinal programmes we are running under the tripod vision, re-orientation to me is the most important, though it is not tangible. My belief is that no matter what we do, no matter the amount of resources we channel into the economy, if we are not able to change the thinking and attitudes of the people, we will get nowhere. We launched the orientation programme in January 2004. We are barely two years plus. And you can see the gains now. Civil servants are now more at work than before. The sanitary condition is a lot better than before. We took it to the communities, schools, churches. People now talk of orientation time. If we say a function starts at 10.0' clock, it is so. We also talked to the traditional rulers, and church ministers. We still tell them that you do not give a chieftaincy title to a man because of the amount of money he has. Consider the contributions he has made to the development of the community, the kind of character he has. We believe that he should be somebody others should look up to.
If you go to the schools, we are using re-orientation to solve the problems of cultism. We are also using it to solve the problem of examination malpractices. It is really working. Even at the motor parks, you can observe that it is being felt. We also talk to our people about conspicuous consumption. Why buy gold and all that and wear, when you can use that money and set up a small scale industry? These are the gains of orientation, we keep talking to the people and it is working. It needs to be sustained. It needs to be carried on for quite a long time.
Newswatch: You are on the last lap of your administration. What are those things you regret not having been able to accomplish?
Udenwa: My perception is that government is a continuous thing. There are quite a lot of things I would have liked to finish up or establish. But you have resource constraints. There are things that are not within one's competence. I wouldn't say I regret so much that I was not able to do them, but I would have loved to get them completed. For instance, I would have loved to build more roads. I would love to see a more improved school system. I am, however, so happy that we have been able to lay the foundation for these things to happen.
Newswatch: Before the 2003 elections, you were accused of hobnobbing with 419ners, who were said to have funded your campaign. What is your relationship with such people now?
Udenwa: I think on the other hand towards the end of 2002, the biggest fight I had was from such people you are talking about. And I have tried to fight such people, and to some extent, I have succeeded. I don't think I was being criticised that they were funding me. There was never anything like that. If you knew the tension that built up before the last elections, it was so high and it was these people who were heating up the polity and I had to fight them. When I mean fighting them, I didn't have any physical fight with them, but I fought them in the elections and defeated them. I think to a large extent we have been able to bring that a little under control. But you can never discountenance the activities of such people.
Newswatch: You have also been criticised by some of your people for siting some projects in Orlu Senatorial District in readiness for getting Orlu State. How do you respond to this?
Udenwa: Thank God I was not siting these projects outside Imo State. But I must tell you one thing. If you go to Imo today without being immodest, I think the three senatorial districts can boast of the impact of the government. I don't think for any reason we have sited things more in Orlu than we have done in Owerri or Okigwe. It is part of my programme to ensure that we bring to governance a situation where it doesn't really matter where a governor comes from. His impact should be felt in all senatorial districts. I know people are looking at the teaching hospital in Orlu. Owerri has the general hospital which is almost our own specialist's hospital and the Federal Medical Centre. I felt that it is better to have a teaching hospital in Orlu, because the Federal University of Technology is planning to convert the Federal Medical Centre to a teaching hospital. So, it won't be nice if we have two teaching hospitals in one city. So, that is the situation. But I tell you my experience in government. The best thing is to do what one can. Do what you think is best, people will still talk. There is nothing you do that people will not talk. So, it shouldn't distract any body. If you go to Orlu now, they will tell you we thought he should have done more for us. So, in terms of distribution of amenities and projects, I think we have been fair to all the senatorial districts.
Newswatch: Sometime ago you called on the sons and daughters of Imo State to come home and invest. To what extent can you say that they have answered your call?
Udenwa: To a large extent, it has been a success, but there are still some handicaps. Now you can see if you tell a businessman in Lagos, for example, to come home and establish, instead of Lagos there are comparative advantages Lagos has over Imo. He has to think twice before coming home to invest. That is why you see our people in different parts of the country; even if they are being pushed home they will still go back. A lot have answered the call. I even told them, we are not saying close your business in Lagos and bring it back home. We are saying establish a branch of your business at home so that you can also help to offer employment to your people. Many of them have responded. We now have a lot of small businesses springing up here and there. But I still believe we have our handicap. But we feel it so much to do with the issue of power. I am sure even here at Newswatch you might be having similar problems where you have to run the press here with generators all the time. So, this is part of the problems. Again, it takes a businessman time to begin to appreciate that he should move to a new place. I think a lot of them are coming and I expect that more and more will come home in the future.
Newswatch: Owerri used to be one of the cleanest in the country. But today, you see refuse and garbage all over the place. What are you doing about it?
Udenwa: Well, Owerri is still one of the cleanest in the country; I wouldn't believe it is not. But at the same time you must also realise that at the time Owerri was the cleanest in the country, what was the population? Today, what is the population of Owerri? You can't compare the 80s and the present time. Even looking back at the 70s the population of Owerri has doubled. And this, of course, presents its own problems. We are tackling the problems. We are cleaning up the place. We are spending a lot more on environmental sanitation, but I do agree with you the problems are still there.
Newswatch: Are you in any way preparing somebody that will succeed you, to continue with your works?
Udenwa: In our situation in this country and in any democracy, you don't have the right to arrogate to yourself the powers to appoint a successor or something like that. It is not as easy as that. But I think everybody has a chance. If you want to rule Imo State, you come out. But by the time you address the people, by the time we see you and your antecedents, we may be able to say oh, Mr A or Mr B could be a possibility. But I think it is not always right to think that this is the man I want to succeed me. The man you want to succeed you, at the end may not be as successful. And if you are the person who has pushed him there, and he is a disappointment, it comes back to you. It is not always right for one to say, I want this man to succeed me. But that does not mean, I won't be interested in who succeeds me. If you come to Imo today, the post of governor has become so attractive that we have between 20 and 30 aspirants. It is good for the society. We are all trying to study them. They are not from heaven .They are our brothers and sisters. So, we look at them. In the end, we should be able to say ok, this is a possibility, this is not a possibility. So, I think I will be interested in who succeeds me and I wish we continue to pray for God to bring a worthy successor. Somebody who can do better than me. That's what progress is all about.
Newswatch: But the people that have come to be known as Abuja politicians from Imo State suspect that you have your own candidate. That's why they are fighting you.
Udenwa: It is expected. Why not?
Newswatch: We want to know who your candidate is.
Udenwa: I don't have a candidate. They will suspect that I have a candidate. But I don't have any. You don't even know whether one of the so-called Abuja politicians will be the best. We will support him. May be some of them believe they cannot be supported, but I always tell them to feel free to campaign. In the end, we will choose the best.
Newswatch: If you have to choose, what kind of person will you like to succeed you?
Udenwa: Fine. I would like somebody with a good background. We should know you and know what you have been able to do in the past. If you are a businessman, for example, what type of business have you been able to run? Luckily for us you are not going to be posted from outside. We know your background. We know the family you come from. We know what you have been able to do in your life. We know how straight you have been all your life. How intelligent you are, how accommodating you can be. There is a lot that makes a leader. Somebody who can unite the state. Somebody who thinks about the progress of the state. Not somebody who is interested in what goes into his pocket. Not somebody who is interested in how to make his brothers and sisters billionaires. If I may borrow IBB's saying, I don't know who will succeed me, but I know those who will not succeed me. That means there are people you already know from their characters that they can even succeed you.
Newswatch: If the people so choose a character like that, will you be in a position to determine?
Udenwa: The ultimate deciders will be the people. If you want to put your hand in fire, and I say bring it out and you refuse, it means the fire is sweet. Whatever you see, you take.
Newswatch: So you can't annul the election in your state?
Udenwa: I don't have the powers.
Newswatch: To what extent will zoning be a factor?
Udenwa: That's a very interesting question. Imo has never been zoned. I contested with people from outside my zone. In 2003, I contested with people from outside my zone. So, you cannot say it is the turn of this zone. It is even a personal crusade I am carrying on, by saying yes my Orlu brothers and sisters, even where nobody left it for us when it was our turn, having been there for eight years, let us give the others a chance. So, that is much I can do. It is just persuasion. But in terms of black and white that it is going to this or that zone, there is nothing like that.
Newswatch: During the era of late Sam Mbakwe, Adapalm was a major revenue earner for the state. What is the state of Adapalm now?
Udenwa: Adapalm has not done well over the years. You see, you need to know the amount of loan with which Adapalm was built. Over the years, even before I came into office in 1999, Adapalm was already on the ground. I know how much I spent to get it working again. The palms have a life span. The experts said after the 25-year life span, we should have cut down all the palms. In fact, we should be replanting long before the 25 years. By the time we came into office, it was almost 25 years. And there was no plan to replant. But we have been trying to resuscitate it. Adapalm is in the process of privatisation. We want to give it to the private sector to look after it, to make a better estate. It is quite a large estate, well-conceived at the time, but like anything government, it has been rundown over the years.
Newswatch: We will like to know the level of job creation you have achieved.
Udenwa: I have a personal opinion about job creation. My own understanding of job creation is for the private sector to come in. I don't see job creation in the sense of government employment for more people. To me there is a limit to how many people government can employ. I am thinking that today the public sector is by far, over-staffed. But we have improved the environment. We have built new roads, we have rehabilitated quite a lot of other roads. We have tried to provide water and electricity especially in the rural areas. And more and more businesses are now springing up. And to me that is job creation. If we can continue our effort in that direction and see the private sector coming up, we will get a very high level of employment for our people.
Newswatch: Imo State is one of the oil producing states. Curiously, when the president had an initiative to address the restiveness in the oil-producing states, Imo State was excluded from the coastal states' arrangement. We understand that the people of Egbema protested such exclusion. To what extent have you impressed it upon the president to consider Imo?
Udenwa: Well, let me tell you, I see it as very repressive, when you start talking of coastal states. Honestly, I have tried to convince myself what the coastal states are all about. I could not till tomorrow. We are nine oil-producing states in the country. These nine belong to the NDDC (Niger Delta Developmet Commission). All of a sudden we heard of the creation of coastal states, which excludes Imo and Abia. Nobody has been able to convince me of any economic or social reason why that should be. As far as I am concerned, what has happened to me is purely political, especially when you look at the two states that have been excluded. I have made representation to Mr President. I have written letters to him. I have even talked with him personally. I still tell him, I am not convinced, because the problems of oil production in every oil-producing area are the same. Be it environmental degradation, be it youth restiveness, anyway you want to look at it, it is still the same. I even asked what made the other people coastal. They told me there is one place where the state touches the sea. I asked how that place that touched the sea affects the oil production there. You can't convince me. I expect Mr. President to reverse that policy. You can't convince our people in Imo and Abia that there is any reason for excluding them.
Newswatch: PDP, your party, is in turmoil. The President and the Vice-President, two prominent members of your party, PDP, are in a kind of boxing ring. What does this portend for our democracy and 2007?
Udenwa: I want to answer it in two parts. First. You said PDP had been going through some turbulence. Yes. You see PDP is large. In a democracy, if you don't have opposition from outside, you are bound to have it from inside. Now you find out that the opposition from outside the party is very weak, very fragmented. But PDP is so large, made up of different people with diverse political philosophy and views. Where expectations are different, you are bound to have differences and problems. But these problems are not frightening. To me, I don't see them as things that can cripple democracy. It is internal. If PDP cannot put its house in order, any credible opposition should emerge.
The frightening one is the current face off between Mr President and the Vice-President. It is something all Nigerians should be concerned about. It is something all Nigerians should be worried about. If you read papers everyday you see new dimension being introduced, and this is not good for our own national image. It is not at all for our own image to start talking about what happened in secret between the President and the Vice. And for us what level of confidence is it going to instil in us about the government. So, it is quite unfortunate and I appeal to all people of goodwill to intervene and get this issue solved. The exposures we are having in the media are not good for us.
Newswatch: This problem has been on for a while. Why has the PDP not been able to solve it?
Udenwa: I think it is not purely a PDP problem. I know the two of them belong to the PDP, but it is not an exclusive problem of the party. We are talking of a president and his vice, so it goes beyond the PDP. May be PDP would have done a lot of reconciliation and trying to put it down. I am sure PDP would have done a lot of that and it didn't work. But it is something that calls for the concern of all of us irrespective of party affiliations. They are looking after the welfare of all of us. It should worry all of us. We must find a solution to it.
Newswatch: You have a presidential ambition?
Udenwa: Yes, please. Yes.
Newswatch: Why do you want to be Nigeria's president?
Udenwa: I want to be president because I have operated at the level of a governor for eight years. I have tried to assess what I have done. I have to assess my vision. I have tried to ask myself, if I replicate at the national level, what I have done in Imo State, what impact will it make? I have tried to re-examine myself. Do I have what it takes? Do I have the correct disposition? After all the self-examination, I have arrived at the point that if I can be given the opportunity, I will do well and Nigeria will be better for it. That's why I am convinced. That's why I have come out.
Newswatch: What are you doing to emerge as the flag bearer of your party?
Udenwa: I am trying to appeal to Nigerians, and to my party because I believe that it is the best any aspirant can do. It is a matter of issues. What issues are at stake today in Nigeria. I have to appeal to Nigerians, take the issues before them, tell them what I think I can do and I believe Nigerians will listen. So, that's what I am doing.
Newswatch: How do you react to the suggestion that you are actually working for IBB because you want to be Vice-President?
Udenwa: There are quite a lot of speculations when it comes to these things. There is nothing wrong in working with IBB. There is nothing wrong, for example, working with any other person. We can work together. But I want to make it clear to Nigerians that you don't vie for VP. If I want to be the VP, I shouldn't come out at all. If anybody gets his party ticket as a presidential candidate, he is very free to pick anybody, even from Newswatch, as his running mate. The VP thing is a personal thing to the flag bearer. He can only have a consultation with his party, and say this is my choice as VP.
Newswatch: In 2003, the Igbos were pushing for an Igbo president, and a whole lot of them came out. And they are making the same case again. Why are we talking about Igbo presidency?
Udenwa: From my own personal view, honestly, I would want a situation where we do not sectionalise the Presidency. Ideally, we should at anytime pick the president from any part of the country, where we see the best man. But you see when certain areas are talking about tasting the Presidency; it is because they feel that they have been denied in the past. The Igbo feel that they have been part and parcel of this country and have not been able to taste power. So, it is a legitimate claim. It is a legitimate clamour. But no matter how we clamour, we must convince the other people in Nigeria. We can't make it by ourselves. There is no time we shall all sit back and say, Igbo go and appoint one president for us. It can't happen. So, we still have to convince the other people. If we are able to convince them and they agree, good enough for us.
Newswatch: Is it possible for the Igbo to come together and say, we are bringing out one person instead of a horde of aspirants?
Udenwa: Even if it is possible I will not support that. Igbo can come together and bring out somebody and we don't find that person suitable at the national scene. If Igbo think it is their turn to produce the president of this country, then, they should give us choices. There should be alternatives. What probably is the best to the Igbo from their own standpoint might not be from the national standpoint. That is why some two years ago, when we started talking about Igbo presidency, they said we haven't seen anybody. Today, some of us have come out and they are saying you people are too many. But I think there is nothing wrong with many people coming out. It gives Nigerians a choice.
Newswatch: This is a country endowed with abundant human and natural resources and yet, the country is still crawling. What do you think really are the problems of Nigeria?
Udenwa: I have slept over these issues for quite sometime. Our problem is not political. It isn't social. The major problem of this country is economic. If we are able to free ourselves, if everybody is employed, if people are happy, you find out that the tension in this country will come down.
The poor man in Imo State is suffering the same thing with the poor man in Sokoto. It is just that the elite from Sokoto and the elite from Imo State will represent these poor people badly and exploit their poverty. How do we solve these economic problems? We have enough resources. We also need to increase our productivity. With all the oil in the world, if we don't increase our productivity, we are wasting time. Some of the countries that were in the Third World with us have left us there. We often talk about the Asian Tigers like Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, etc. Go and see how they work. Go to China and see how the Chinese work.
Again, we should change our consumption pattern. We like to wear Italian suits, French suits, Spanish shoes, etc. Our women, with due apology, will tell you of Beijing declaration. If you see a Chinese woman she hardly wears earrings.
But we are fond of their lace materials. If a woman is going to a function and you value her outfit, she may be worth more than half a million. We can't grow with that kind of life style. We ride the best cars in the world. Yet, we can't produce the wheel of a car. We must look at our economic situation. At what percentage per annum are we growing our GDP? Are we moving forward? Is it all about oil? How is our agriculture moving? So, given the opportunity, I will focus mainly on economic issues.
Then, how do we ensure peace and unity? These are very important. Again, I will see to it that we practice true federalism, making the centre less attractive.
In the First Republic, Ahmadu Bello never came to Lagos to rule. He sent Tafawa Balewa. He was more comfortable at home. The regions were economically independent to a large extent. But today we are practising unitary government.
Newswatch: Few years back the state of roads in the South East was a big issue. What is the situation now?
Udenwa: It is still a big issue. Some have seen some little progress, but we still have quite a lot to do. The Owerri-Onitsha highway rehabilitation was flagged off early 2003 and not much was done. But of recent, the Owerri end was given to Julius Berger and they have started work. I hope they are well-funded, so that we will have it completed in good time. There are still quite a lot of federal roads that need attention.
Newswatch: Why is it that Ndigbo feel that they are marginalised in almost everything?
Udenwa: Don't you feel so? Well, I think it derives from the civil war. Since after the civil war it has been very difficult for Ndigbo to get to certain positions in Nigeria. Like in the Army, Navy, Airforce and all that and the latest one is the issue of the coastal states. These are the things that don't give enough confidence to the people.
Newswatch: To what extent does the Movement for the Sovereign State of Biafra, MASSOB, enjoy the support of Ndigbo?
Udenwa: Well, it depends. You should look at MASSOB from two angles. Is it like any other ethnic organisation or is it what the name says; Movement for the Sovereign State of Biafra. For some of us that name is an abnormally. We shouldn't at this time talk about Movement for the Sovereign State of Biafra. But we really have issues like the marginalisation we have been talking about. These are issues that can be fought for. Just like you have the OPC, MOSOP, Ijaw Youths, Arewa Youths and so forth. MASSOB to that extent is fine. We have said it in the past to them, to go and change their name.
The Igbo as at today have more stake in Nigeria than any other tribe. We have more stakes. We can't talk of secession. Secede from Nigeria to where? You want us to leave Nigeria? Leave it for whom? We are a major builder of this country. Any part of this country you go to, after the indigenous tribes, it is the Igbo. And when they are there, they are there fully. They invest heavily there as if it is their home. Go to Igboland. I don't know of any tribe that has investments anywhere in Igboland. To that extent we have more stake in Nigeria today than any other tribe. Wherever we go, we create wealth, have our children, and develop the place. So, why should we abandon these things? For those who are wishing us to go we are not going, we can't go. It is our intention to stay and make Nigeria a better place for all of us. Don't see MASSOB as carrying the Igbo to secede.
Newswatch: The preparations for 2007 elections have been very slow. And people are saying that INEC may not be able to do a good job. What is your opinion about it?
Udenwa: I have the same fear, but recently, I had the opportunity of talking with the INEC chairman in a private discussion. He assured me that they are ready. I think from their own time table, they feel comfortable that they are going to meet up.
Newswatch: What's your relationship with Senator Arthur Nzeribe?
Udenwa: Arthur Nzeribe is my senator representing me as a person. That is our relationship.
Newswatch: But there was an attempt to recall him. It was suggested that your wife is interested in that seat. Is that true?
Udenwa: If my wife is interested in that do you have to recall him first? You don't need to recall him for my wife to be interested in that seat. So there two different things. If Orlu people feel he is not serving their interest and they want to recall him, it is one thing. If my wife is interested in running for the Senate, it is another thing. She is qualified to run, going by the constitution. If actually she has the ambition, there is nothing wrong with it.
Newswatch: Were you behind the attempt to recall him?
Udenwa: I will say no, but I am an Orlu man also. I hope you will appreciate that also.
Newswatch: And you feel he is not representing you effectively?
Udenwa: No, Orlu people feel he is not representing them effectively.
Newswatch: Why did the attempt fail?
Udenwa: I don't know. How many attempts to recall somebody in this country have been successful? Orlu people thought their own will be the first and they are now being told that their own has failed. It is unfortunate.
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